Interview with Clive Edwards, by Pesi Fonua  (Part Two)

"Without any doubt [government] has no direction and no future, politically and economically or in any other section- it does not know where it is going at the moment" - Clive Edwards

Only months ago Clive Edwards, as Tonga's Minister of Police and sometimes Acting Prime Minister, was seen by many as the most bull-headed man in the Tongan parliament.

Ruthlessly defending and implementing the King's and Royal Family's wishes, and employing his Special Branch Police to spy on the community to isolate dissent, few would doubt that he has been a formidable opponent of Tonga's pro-democracy campaigners ever since he was appointed by the King as a minister in 1996.

Now, in an abrupt change of political fortune, and a turn of tongue, Clive Edwards is running for parliament because he said he wants Tonga's governing system of "puppet ministers" to change.

Today, he describes the government that he has been vehemently defending during the past eight years as: "without any doubt it has no direction and no future, politically and economically or in any other section - it does not know where it is going at the moment."

Whether or not it is a monumental case of sour grapes following his August 27 sacking, Clive will be listened to by the electorate because it is unknown in Tonga for the cast-out Ministers of the king to speak out.

Fix it man

During Clive's eight years term in Cabinet he established himself as the Government's political front man, and their Fix it Man. He chaired more committees than any other minister, and he formulated and made decisions on issues that were outside of his own portfolios. On a number of occasions he was the Acting Prime Minister of Tonga.

Clive became the face of the Tongan government on some of its most controversial issues during the past few years, such as the loss of the Tonga Trust Fund millions; the failed attempt to introduce restrictive media legislation; the abortive registration of foreign ships; the collapsed Royal Tongan Airlines; and the unpopular one-domestic-airline policy of government.

In the background, Clive featured in other more controversial issues. Evidence in court cases revealed his involvement in a planned break-in to the home of the former Minister of Justice, Tevita Tupou, and the relaxed procedure he adopted while issuing visas to Chinese. The Immigration portfolio was later taken away from him and was given to the Prime Minister.

His over-powering influence in government led some People's Representatives in parliament to refer to him as the real leader of the Cabinet.

Parliamentary candidate

Clive last week registered as one of the 31 candidates contesting the three Tongatapu People's Representative's seats in Tonga's March 17 General election.

It is the second time he has run for Parliament. Better known to Tongans as "Neti", Clive was campaigning for the 1996 Parliamentary Election, having behind him a long career in law, working in both Tonga and New Zealand, when the Ministerial appointment enabled him to take a short cut into parliament. But, this time, he is not looking for the favour of the king.

"I want something done, then I will retire. I am not going to sit and pound my heart away while nothing is done. I want something done then I will move out and the young people can run it," Clive said in our interview of January 11.

"I want the involvement of the Royal Family in government ended.

"They still have a role in our society as the Royal Family and we still need to support them with a Royal Family budget, but the decision must be with the people - and it...’s got to be done, urgently."

Challenging Prime Minister

Clive said he had no confidence in the Prime Minister, whom he thinks spends far too much time on overseas trips, "when he should be here looking after the affairs of the country."

"The Prime Minister must go because he has not got the quality for Prime Minister, or as a leader."

"Let me give you some examples. When it became clear that we had lost the Trust Fund, which had surfaced months before it came up in parliament, he attempted to conceal it.

"That was something that upset me. So when he left and I was an Acting Prime Minister for six weeks, I made a full statement to parliament, telling them that it was lost, and I released my statement on the Internet. J. D. Bogdonoff complained to him about my statement, and the Prime Minister then ordered that my statement be removed from all government records. He believed the crooks, and not his minister who was the Acting Prime Minister at the time.

"You can't favour your friends ahead of what is right for the people, you can't!"

Clive believes that the Prime Minister'’s handling of the Royal Tongan Airlines affairs was another example of poor leadership.

"Mapa Faletau, [the Secretary for Civil Aviation], persuaded him to get rid of the RTA board, which was chaired by the Minister of Finance [Tutoatasi Fakafanua], to get rid of the CEO, Semisi Taumoepeau, and reinstate Logan Appu, who was sacked by the previous board. Then they wanted us to guarantee a lease of $6.5 million in one day without any documents, and no one had any idea what the lease was about. You don...’t run government like that. The plane had to come on Saturday night, we guaranteed it on Friday. It was a horrible lease that cost us big money."

Clive said that fortunately the Prime Minister did not realise that he had to get parliamentary approval for the funding, and parliament said no, because it was not done the proper way.

"It is becoming a joke, and it is part of the reason for an inefficient government, because no minister dares to make a decision of his own in case he gets booted out."

Clive said that ministers have the authority to do what they believe is in the best interests of the country. "But in our system if the ministers don't have a prior sanction from Tupouto'a or the PM or the King you are in trouble ...… and sometimes the royals' own interest is more important. The day has come in Tonga that we can'’t be treated as puppets."

Media laws

Last year Clive Edwards spearheaded the government's internationally criticised attempt to change Clause 7 the Constitution in order to curtail freedom of speech, and to gag the press.

The costly exercise ended with the unconstitutional laws being overturned by the Supreme Court on October 8, 2004.

Clive now says that the laws came about because government made a decision based on a report from the Special Branch. He said he was responsible for presenting the report to Cabinet and it was a collective decision of the Cabinet for the drafting of the legislation.

He said that the Media Operator's Act was proposed by the Crown Prince Tupouto'a, and it was later supported by the King, "and once it was decided on, I went into it 100%."

Clive said that he still had a considerable amount of respect and affection for the king, "because there was never in my experience anything that has his personal interest, it was always the people first, never his personal interest, and he is a true ruler. I think Queen Salote was the same, and they never accumulated wealth for themselves, they were always giving out money for scholarships and for people."

Clive said that whenever a Minister came up with an idea proposing to increase the taxes, "the king blew his top, 'you increase the taxes, you know what you are doing to my people, you are making the burden heavier for them! Why don'’t you go and do some work instead of putting on the people all the time?' He used to get very angry with ministers when they tried to put more burden on the people, particularly taxes."

Election

"If I am elected I am going to call a meeting soon after the election and put up a deputation to meet with the government and the King to look at the changes to go through parliament this year. To put the proposal and the amendment to parliament for the changes in government. Once those changes become law, hopefully this year, it can be done. Then maybe a transitional government."

Clive is opposed to the idea for the King to appoint two ministers from the nine elected People's Representatives and two from the elected Noble's Representatives. "The grace and favour approach of appointing cabinet minister is out of date. We want ministers who speak out."

He said that he would advise the public not to vote for candidates whose sole objective in running for election is to be appointed as ministers.

Clive's proposal is for the people to elect all members of parliament, then parliament elects the Prime Minister and his deputy, and they elect the Cabinet, the Speaker and the Chairman of the Whole House Committee.

"The Cabinet has full power, with the Privy Council and the King sitting in it. But they don'’t make political decisions, just the normal functioning of Privy Council. At this point of time I don'’t want any changes to the land issue and inheritance. Political change first, and then give the country a chance to look carefully at other changes. We can't have it all at once. What is most important now is a political change, and we want that now, then the will of people will then decide what they need next.

"If government is not interested in sitting down and discussing what it is to their best interest of the country as a whole, then we are doomed. But we can be happy and everything will work out for everybody, provided we agree how we should run the country for the best interest of everybody," he said.

See also: Interview Part One, "I was accused of coup plot," reveals Edwards [2]