Tonga's Minister of Police Hon. Siaosi 'Aho said that he thought 'Akilisi Pohiva was hallucinating when he came into the Cabinet Room on November 16 and demanded for government to endorse a proposal by the people for political change.

The Minister of Police was giving evidence on the seventh day of the Preliminary Inquiry Hearing of five People Representatives, 'Akilisi Pohiva, 'Uliti Uata, Clive Edwards, 'Isileli Pulu and Lepolo Taunisila, who have been charged with sedition, relating to the destruction of the Nuku'alofa Central Business District on November 16, 2006.

Hon. Siaosi 'Aho, the eighth witnesses to be called by the prosecutor told the court yesterday morning, May 23, his recollection of what happened on November 16. He said that he attended a Cabinet Security Committee meeting at the Prime Miniser's Office at 2.00pm on November 16, and present at that meeting were the Prime Minister, Minister of Finance, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Transport, the Acting Commander of the Tonga Defence Services, the Deputy Commander of the Tonga Police and himself.

He said that the meeting started with a presentation by the Deputy Commander of Police and Acting Commander of the Tonga Defence Services of their assessments on the level of the security threat from protesters who had been gathering at Pangai Si'i. The Deputy Commander of Police assessed that the level of threat was between Low and Medium, while the TDS Acting Commander's assessment was Medium.

Hon. Siaosi 'Aho said that about this time the Minister of Justice, Hon. 'Alisi Taumoepeau arrived at the meeting. She was late but she explained that she was at a Special Meeting of the Parliament Security Committee, where the main issue discussed was that members of parliament were very concerned with their safety if parliament continued in session.

He said that about this time there was a commotion outside the door between the Cabinet room and the office, and a clerk opened the door and he heard voices that said that it was 'Akilisi Pohiva, who then appeared at the door and came into the Cabinet room.

The Minister said that when Pohiva came in the Prime Minister stood up and Pohiva began talking about the people and what the people wanted, which was the reason he came.

Demand

"From what I can recollect the people's demand was for 30, 12 and nine; these were the figures that came out, and the meaning I got from this was that the people wanted this number of people in Parliament, which was 21 members and nine for nobles, and they were to be elected by the people.

"The Prime Minister then told 'Akilisi that this was not a meeting of the House or the Cabinet therefore there was no authority and nothing could be done in relation to the demand he had made.

"'Akilisi insisted that something must be done, then he left the Cabinet room and about 3:00pm. He later returned with 'Uliti Uata, Clive Edwards, 'Isileli Pulu, Vili Kaufusi Helu, 'Osai Latu and Lepolo Taunisila.

"The Speaker of the House also came in together with Nobles Vaha'i, Luani and Tu'iha'ateiho, about the same time.

"Once they were all inside 'Akilisi started saying that it was the people's demand and the people were waiting for an answer, and for government to accept their proposal for 30 members, which splits into 21 and nine.

"My opinion at the time, was that it was rather funny, and I spoke up and asked him about the demands and I also asked him what about the Rule of Law. 'Akilisi replied that 'the Rule of Law is a fraud'

"I asked him in Tongan, "a ia 'oku 'ikai ke toe 'i ai ha tu'utu'uni ia 'a e lao". He replied by repeating what he said before that the rule of law is a fraud. "'Aia 'oku 'ikai ke toe 'i ai ha 'aonga 'etau 'i heni," which meant, if that is so, then what is the point of the meeting, and this is the reason why I thought what he was saying was funny."

Crown Prosecutor Peter Little asked the witness what was the tone of Pohiva's voice at the time. The Minister said that the tone of Pohiva's voice was very high, "like in the house where he sometimes gets carried away. I thought he was hallucinating by demanding Government to endorse what they want, because that was what the wanted."

The Minister said that after this there was a talk to put something on paper but he could not recollect the details.

He said that there was an exchange between the Prime Minister and Pohiva. "The Prime Minister told him that this was something that he could not do, but 'Akilisi said that it had to be done in order to stop, and disperse the people from Pangai Si'i."

Events of 16/11 started

The Minister of Police said that about this time 'Isileli Pulu came into the Cabinet room but there was a lot of noise from outside that he could not hear what was said but Lepolo Taunisila and 'Akilisi Pohiva stood up, and he got up too. "It appeared that things had already started to take place [the burning of properties] and some PR...’s went outside.

"Lepolo then came back in to tell 'Akilisi and 'Uliti to come, but 'Akilisi was still talking about the piece of paper.

"My recollection after that was that the whole place was in a commotion and it was difficult to know what was going on but I noted that at this time the Prime Minister was on the phone and he asked me to check on the situation at the Molisi Tonga supermarket.

"I could not reach anyone on my mobile so I got up and walked outside to the foyer and on the second time I went out I saw there was already smoke, this was between 4:30pm to 5pm."

Cross Examination

Clive Edwards in his cross-examination asked the Minister what he meant when he said that Pohiva was hallucinating. The Minister replied that it was because it appeared that he was not thinking about what he was saying.

Clive asked if he recollected the Monday prior to November 16 of what 'Uliti Uata said in the House about the people wanting change, which was in contrary to what he had just said that it was the PRs who wanted change and not the people.

The witness answered if that is what is in the record it is but he could not remember.

Clive said that a report was presented to the House, stating that 80 percent of the people wanted change, but the witness responded that he was told about it but he had not seen any report.

Clive also asked if the Minister thought it was funny whenever people said something about change. The Minister said no and reminded Clive that he was giving evidence on what took place on November 16.

Clive said that if the People's Representatives have meetings with the people, would not they be representing the voice of the people? Yes, answered the witness.

"What would you call the voice of the people?"

Hon. Siaosi 'Aho answered that the people being discussed does not represent the voice of all the people of Tonga and that is why he thought it was funny.

Clive also wanted know what the minister meant when he said the Rule of Law. The Minister explained that the Rule of Law is the authority and power of the law to make decisions.

"We were at the Cabinet room with 'Osai and Vili they spoke out but they are not charged, instead, I who did not speak, is charged. Is the rule of law biased?"

The Minister responded that he was not involved in laying charges.

The cross examination of the Minister of Police continued yesterday afternoon. The Preliminary Inquiry Hearing resumes this morning.