Minute No. 26, Wednesday July 28

A Bill for a new Act on the Guardianship of Children.

Guardianship is different from adoption.

A fist fight broke out in the House.

The formation of a Disciplinary Committee

The Legislature dissolved into the Whole House Committee and the Chairman, Noble Tu'i'afitu took his chair.

Chairman ...– said they would not continue debate on the Tobacco Act, they would leave that aside for the meantime and get on with the Bill relating to the Guardianship of Children.

'Isileli Pulu ...– requested for the Minister of Justice to explain the new bill because it was only last year that they amended the same act.

Minister of Justice ...– said that prior to the amendment to the Civil Act last year Tonga was able to use British Civil Act, but the purpose of that amendment was to enable Tonga to draft its own legislation.

He said that this bill was for a new act to legalise customary adoption and in the case of a couple divorcing it gave the court the authority to decide who should have guardianship over the children.

'Isileli Pulu ...– asked what happened in the interim when the Civil Act was amended last year and this Bill would become law.

Minister of Justice ...– said that the court would make a decision according to what was stated in the law at the time.

Noble Vaha'i ...– wanted to know if the Bill would make it legal to adopt the children of a married couple.

Minister of Justice...– said that it was illegal to adopt legitimate children, but if this Bill could become law it would be possible for the guardianship of a married couple's children to be given to someone else.

Minister of Police ...– pointed out that this would make it possible for some Tongan families who had customarily adopted the child of a relative to take the child with them as a member of their family if they emigrated overseas.

Sunia Fili ...– said that under the Bill a child was a person under the age of 18, but under the constitution a male child must be 21 before he could lay claim to a hereditary title. He suggested for a person to remain a child until the age of 21.

Chairman ...– reminded the member that a male child was entitled for a tax allotment when he turned 16.

'Etuate Lavulavu ...– said that legal age was stated under different legislation. To get a driving licence one must be 18 but to get a tax allotment a boy must be 16.

Minister of Justice ...– further emphasised the different legal ages for different requirements. For noble's hereditary title the heir must be 21, but to ascend to the throne the heir must be 18.

'Etuate Lavulavu ...– wanted to change the Tongan translation for a child tamasi'i ... which could be either a boy or a girl to fanau or tama tangata or tama fefine. He said that if the House did not make the change it was then promoting to be more fakaleiti and therefore support homosexuality.

Speaker ...– did not think there was any thing wrong with tamasi'i, referring to a child which could be either a boy or a girl. He said that that is a term that has been written into the Tongan law and the constitution and it should stay.

Fineasi Funaki ...– wanted to know if there was a provision in the Bill that would make it possible for a married couple to allow their child to be adopted by someone else.

'Akilisi Pohiva ...– said that the adoption of illegitimate children should be made possible because of the increasing number of children being deserted by their parents. He said that a child was abandoned at Sopu, and no one knew who were the parents and the child had been adopted by someone else.

Minister of Police ...– explained that the Bill had nothing to do with adoption, but it had to do with Guardianship, and if parents treated their children poorly then the court would decide for someone else to take guardianship of the children. He said that the Bill was to protect the children.

Fineasi Funaki ...– continued to press his concern that there should be a provision in the Bill to make it possible for a married couple to allow their children to be adopted, if they wanted to.

Minister of Justice ...– wondered if Clause 6 did not address the concern of the member.

Fineasi Funaki ...– said that he had studied it but he could not see it.

Minister of Police ...– said that the member was talking about a different issue, adoption, but what they were talking was guardianship.

'Akillisi Pohiva ...– said that it appeared that there was a difference of opinion between the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Police, because the Minister of Justice had told the member said that the Minister of Justice had pointed out that Clause 6 had the answer to the member's problem. He asked for the Minister of Justice to be given a chance to explain.

Minister of Police ...– said that there was no difference of opinion, and that the member was trying to destabilise the House.

'Akilisi Pohiva ...– said that the Minister of Justice was trying to make a point that the concern of the member was covered by Clause 6

Minister of Police ...– said that he told the member to look at Clause 6 which clarified the objective of the Bill, Guardianship, but he insisted on adoption. He said that there was no clash of opinion.

'Akilisi Pohiva ...– said that was why government had lost a number of court cases because of the Minister of Police trying to control the Minister of Justice. He then warned government that they would get into trouble because of the Minister of Police who had influenced government to give a grant of $50,000 to the 'Unuaki ['Unuaki 'o Tonga Institute].

Minister of Police ...– called for the Chairman to tell the member to sit down.

'Etuate Lavulavu ...– called for a Point of Order, and told the member to shut up.

'Akilisi Pohiva ...– replied for the member to shut up first.

'Etuate Lavulavu ...– called that he was going to punch the member. He asked the member if he wanted to fight because he was going to smash him.

'Akilisi Pohiva...– called for the member to be taken out of the House, because he was a trouble-maker.

[a scuffle and fist fight took place between the two members]

The Speaker dissolved the Committee and took his chair as the Speaker of the House.

Speaker ...– called for the members to settle down, then expressed his shame on the language used and what had happened in the House. He reminded members that they were in the House as representatives of the people. He asked them to think seriously about what had happened and he hoped that it would not happen again.

'Akilisi Pohiva ...– asked for forgiveness, but expressed an opinion that the Speaker and the Chairman, and other members of the House could have avoided what took place in the House, but all the same he did not think that such behaviour should have taken place in the House. He asked for forgiveness.

'Etuate Lavulavu ...– asked for forgiveness. He said that he had a belief that it was his responsibility to correct any member who infringed the rules and regulation of the House. He asked 'Akilisi for forgiveness...  and said that the TV camera would reveal all what took place.

Deputy Prime Minister ...– thanked the Speaker for restoring peace in the House. He said that members should stick by the rules of debate in the House. He pointed out that it had been very bad practice for a member to get up and run down another member, and such a behaviour was unacceptable in a good debating environment. He also believed that the Chairman allowed members to wander off the issue that was in front of the House.

Afternoon session

Speaker ...– said that in according with Clause 69 sub clause 2 and 3 of the Rules and Regulation of proceeding in the House he would suspend 'Akilisi Pohiva for one and a half days and 'Etuate Lavulavu for three days from the House.

Minister of Police ...– proposed for the formation of a Disciplinary Committee to look at the behaviour of members in the House. He said that the committee was not to set penalties but to look at ways of improving the proceedings of the House.

Speaker ...– supported the move by the Minister of Police. He called for votes and it was carried, 16-2. Opposing were 'Akilisi Pohiva and Dr Feleti Sevele.

The Legislature dissolved and the Chairman of the Whole House Committee took his chair.

Chairman ...– called for proceeding to continue with the Guardianship Act.

Minister of Justice...– requested for a number of Clauses to be withdrawn. He wanted to do some more work on them before returning them to the House.

The committee was dissolved into Legislature and the House was closed for the day.