'Akilisi Pohiva, a watchdog captures the votes [1]
Monday, May 31, 1999 - 11:00. Updated on Friday, January 8, 2016 - 13:32.
From Matangi Tonga Magazine Vol. 14, no. 2, May 1999.
Interview and photos by Pesi Fonua
‘Akilisi Pohiva was re-elected in Tonga’s March General Election as the Tongatapu No. 1 People’s Representative to the Tongan Legislative Assembly, a seat he has held since 1990.
‘Akilisi has been a controversial political figure ever since he first entered Parliament in 1987, not only because of his indifference to the rules and procedures of the House, but also for his outspoken and controversial comments about Cabinet ministers, the King and members of the Royal family. They are comments that have cost him tens of thousands of pa‘anga in lawyers’ fees and court awards for the defamed over the last decade.
At the same time ‘Akilisi says that he is not anti-royal and, in fact, he thinks that Crown Prince Tupouto‘a should be Tonga’s next Prime Minister.
A former civil servant, ‘Akilisi was once a school teacher who annoyed government, and gained a high profile in proving that he was unfairly sacked from the Ministry of Education by Cabinet.
Today ‘Akilisi’s loud-mouthed politics are seen by some as little more than a successful attempt to keep a well-paid job in the House. But there are others, particularly those in administration and business, who find his confrontational stands obstructive to progress on some delicate political issues.
But once again the polling has shown that ‘Akilisi connects in a big way to the people who live in villages and rural areas on Tongatapu. A large number of voters still perceive him as someone who has no fear of speaking out strongly.
So what is ‘Akilisi Pohiva’s political motive in 1999? What is his political ideology? Is he a political theorist with a reforming agenda or is he just an opportunist? Is he a racist?
‘Akilisi clarifies his position as a Tongan politician, following the March General Election.
Pesi Fonua —Looking at the new line up of People’s Representatives to the Tongan Legislature you are now one of the senior PRs. Is there a chance now for PRs to work together as a team, possibly under your leadership?
‘Akilisi Pohiva —There is a need, and I wish that we could work together. There will be times when we will be able to work together and there will be times when we will not.
The House will open soon and the new People’s Representatives, have not met, so when the whistle blows at the opening of the House that is when we will find out what position one will play in. You can imagine what kind of game we will be playing; there is no game plan, no team, and no leader. Only when we are in the House we will find out the commitment of each PR, which may be only this much (indicating one centimetre of his index finger). We are unknown to each other and very disorganised… 1999 will be little different to last year and the year before.
But on the other hand, if there are members who are taking their jobs seriously, and they have a certain commitment and a work plan, then that is when things will start happening in the House.
During and after the election the concept of Members of Parliament working together was raised a number of times. The new Speaker of the House, Hon. Veikune, has also stressed the importance of Members of Parliament working together… Is it possible or is it just wishful thinking?
It is a hope and a desire of all members of the House that the House can work together. But in reality the nature of a parliament and with the kind of issues that the House has to deal with—such as new legislation and economic policies—it is always going to be very difficult for us to work together. It is natural in the process for members to clash over issues. When a nation is in search of some kind of a truth it is natural for members to clash. I am not saying that one should go into the House with the intention of being indifferent and just refuse to work with anyone else. I don’t mean that.
In the House we all have our own interests, the ministers have theirs, the nobles have theirs and we have ours, and they are diverse… It is natural for each group to protect their vested interests and that is when there will be clashes, and I don’t think we should shy away from those clashes and consider that to be bad.
What do you think the people who voted for you really want you to do?
First, people fully understand our form of government and how difficult it is for People’s Representatives to achieve anything in the House. People know that we have only nine representatives. People then judge our work in the House on that basis, not on things that you have achieved, but simply on the commitment of the Member of Parliament to the work that he is doing in the House, even though he may not have achieved anything in the House.
People can tell how dedicated a person is to the kind of work that he is doing.
I think people understand my working objective and the fact that I am giving it my all, and I think they appreciate that.
So you don’t think that the people are expecting anything, they would just like you to continue to probe the activities of Cabinet Ministers and to make sure that they do their jobs properly?
They all know how difficult it is, and they are convinced that PRs who come forward with big projects, which they say they want to achieve when they enter the House, will not achieve anything. People are then really looking at who is really making an impact in the House and on government.
That is how I feel about it. Since I became a Member of Parliament I have not done anything else, and I am committed to my job as a representative of the people.
Since the closure of the House I have been at my office from 8.30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday to Saturday. I carry out research, talk to Cabinet Ministers, and people come over to discuss various issues. I think that is what captures the attention of the voters.
You are a member of the Pro-Democracy Movement, and so were other candidates for the recent election, but most of them did not do as well as you. Why was it?
By being members of this movement gave us unity, and strength, but that in itself does not guarantee that one automatically can go into the House. The personality and the work commitment of the candidates are necessary. Feleti Sevele is a good example, before Feleti allied himself with the movement he was already recognised as a possible candidate, and very little needed to be added on.
One should not expect the movement to carry him into the House. People will gauge your commitment and the work that you are doing as an individual.
In our interview in 1993 you said that you had chosen to be the opposition to government. Is there any change in that stance?
That role is indispensable. The role of an opposition does not sound very appealing but there has to be a check and balance. We do not have an official opposition, so naturally there is a demand for a group of people or an individual to provide that missing entity. So while we are just floating like this, someone has to provide that opposition.
I also firmly believe that the fundamental role of the People’s Representatives in the House is to follow up the work that is carried out by the Ministers. The procedure is that they have their working budget and a national working agenda, so we can’t go there with another working agenda of our own, because ours will never be implemented because we have no budget to finance our working program. The authority and finance remains with the Cabinet and the best we can do is to check on what they are doing. I think that is our main role, to make sure that revenues are collected properly and are spent wisely.
The opposition stance that you have chosen—among the people that you are working with in the House and within the movement, do they know what you are doing?
They know but it is risky, costly, and very difficult. They also know that it is very important, but when it comes to actually doing the job it is not always easy. But for me that is the one vital role of a Member of Parliament.
You seem to have fallen out with every political colleague that you have been working with in recent years both in the movement and in the House.
I think they understand but they have their own personal interests. For example, when we decided to pursue the issue of the Development Licences we met the Minister a number of times. Then we formed a committee to investigate and we came out with a list of people who were abusing the privilege of the Development Licence. When we were all set to proceed and take action others were reluctant because they were affiliated with people who we were going to investigate. We did the same exercise with the Customs Department, and the Duty Free. I think they knew how important it was for us to do the task but were not happy about it, and were not committed.
It is just like the House itself, we should get our own House in order before we move on and take action on others.
So you are falling out with your colleagues because you are too dedicated to being an opposition to government, but they tend to have second thoughts on some of these issues?
There are boundaries that have to be drawn, it would be foolish for me not to take into account their interests, or I will never be able to work with anyone.
But looking at where we are now, there are boundaries and a situation where there is no room for any compromise. So I think it is only natural to happen that way taking into account the environment that we are working in here in Tonga.
We have to allow the work to continue, but we have to allow the principle to flourish, and we have to sacrifice human relationships and human beings in order to make things happen. There will be a time when there will be a need for all these sacrifices to take place in order for the principle to flourish.
The point is that most of the people that I worked with have left the principle that we have been working on, while I have remained with the cause.
This year difficult economic reforms will be tabled into the House, such as a new Companies Regulation, a new Communications Regulation, and the introduction of a new Pension Scheme for Public Servants. There is now an obvious lack of experienced lawyers, the likes of [former PRs] Laki Niu, and Masao Paasi among the new People’s Representatives. How do you think the PRs will be able to cope with the responsibility of law making?
I don’t think it will be any different from last year. When someone comes into the House with an idea of something to do, that is fine, but what I have learnt from experience is that there’s no such impact… Therefore I don’t think there will be any new ideas.
… It will be very difficult for someone to break the way the House operates.
I want to emphasise that the major role of the PRs is to make sure that the revenue of the government is collected properly, and to make sure that these resources are being spent wisely.
We should support all other economic ventures but PRs should pay a lot of attention to the collection of the revenue and how it is spent.
Last year some complex legislation was presented to the House. Program Budgeting was one that was finally approved. Another was the Port Authority legislation that involved some very aggressive debate and in the end Vava‘u and Ha‘apai were excluded.
Yes, that was a big achievement, and there were issues that brought us together, but what I was referring to was the majority of the cases.
Why was the opposition successful in amending the Port Authority legislation?
We more or less agreed that it was not a good idea. The PRs from Vava‘u and Ha‘apai were against it so were the governors and even some of the ministers and nobles. But it was a historical achievement, and during the debate at recess some ministers told us how they disagreed with the legislation.
There was a motion in the House, I think by ‘Uhila Liava‘a, a few years ago for all Members to make public their business interests before they entered the House. Has anything been done about that?
It is something that should be done. Members of Parliament should open up themselves to the public before they enter the House.
One of the efforts by government to restructure the economy was the restructuring of the civil service. But Government has been cautious about going ahead, particularly with a redundancy program, because of concern that it could become a political issue. Do you think that the People’s Representatives could possibly support government for the sake of expediting an economic reform that has to be put into place?
When we are talking about restructuring the public service we have to amend the Constitution, because we can’t enforce a restructuring program among the lower rank of the public service that doesn’t include the upper rank. We can’t tell a director that he has to retire at a certain age, and yet a minister is already well over 70. So that is the difficult issue when we are talking about restructuring the public service, because our leaders must feel that something is not right, because we just can’t try and restructure the bottom but leave the top as it is. Government can’t proceed with this program because there is a lack of confidence due to the inconsistency in their approach, so the issue of trying to restructure the public service, for me, will never happen.
With the parliamentary election rules, do you think it is time to lower the voting age from 21 to 18 years, and for overseas Tongans to be able to vote?
If overseas Tongans are allowed to vote there will be a lot of problems because campaigning overseas will be on a different scale from what is carried out here.
I think it will be better to put the emphasis on encouraging the voters who will be in Tonga on election day to vote, and try and get a bigger turn out of, say, about 80 per cent.
As for the lowering of the age group from 21 to 18 years, I have not given it much thought.
I think we should continue with the current election procedure. The participation of Tongan community overseas will be okay but it has to be organised properly. Who knows? We may eventually end up having Members of Parliament elected from the United States into the Tongan parliament. I would support the concept of Members of Parliament being elected to represent the Tongan communities in New Zealand, Australia, and the U.S.A.
Going back to our interview in 1993, I think there were two important issues for you and the people who you were working with at the time—one was the referendum, and the other was for to draft a new Constitution. Now we are into the last days of this century is there one specific objective that you want to achieve?
Yes, there was one and that was to amend the Tongan Constitution. My thinking was that by continued pushing, the government would eventually establish a Constitutional Review Committee, that is what I was aiming at, and it has not happened. But I am convinced that Government will eventually establish a Constitutional Review Commit- tee.
Have you read about Langi’s [the Deputy Prime Minister] submission to government? I have spoken to the Deputy Prime Minister recently and he told me that what I had in mind had reached its peak, because what he had in mind was that no one from the outside was to instigate major changes in government. It was to be initiated by government and carried out by government.
My feeling now is that we will get there eventually, I did not really expect government to accept whatever we put forward, but we pressured them to do something about the Constitution.
The leadership crisis is getting worse, and we have to solve that problem first. I know what is happening inside government. I have been talking to the Minister of Justice five times recently, and I have spoken to the Prime Minister, and I know what is happening inside government.
What is happening inside government?
What is happening now is that individual ministers are doing exactly whatever they want to do, there is no direction. Yes, there are Cabinet meetings but there is just too much room for ministers to go off and do whatever they want to do.
Who do you think should be the Prime Minister at this stage?
It would not matter who, except for [the Crown Prince] Tupouto‘a, he is the only one that would have some feeling for it. With the others it would not matter whether it was Langi or whoever, because I don’t think anything will happen. There is a communication breakdown between the King and his ministers, and the current Prime Minister has no authority and energy.
Do you think this kind of situation leaves room for some sort of a civil uprising? Or do you think the time is ripe for Tongans to say: let’s elect our Prime Minister?
I think that is the only alternative left, it is going to be a costly operation, but it is the only option left.
The disappointing scenario is that while we are facing economic hardship you watch the Indians and the Chinese businesses growing. The Chinese will have a big impact in our economy in the future, they leasing land all over the place. There are four Chinese shops one after another along Tali Matangi I went past there today.
How do you think things like that can happen?
It is because of a lack of leadership, because issues like that should have been picked up by Cabinet, so what happens now no one looks after that side of the affairs, except for the Minister of Police and his officers.
In the House, will you raise this issue of leadership crisis?
I will raise that issue whenever I have a chance in the House. The danger of not having a leader who can discipline the ministers and make sure that they are doing their work is that the morale of the public servants is getting very low. All this has a lot to do with the fast taking over by the Chinese and Indian of businesses in Tonga, because they are coming in while we are not prepared for the new global economy.
During the last six months before the elections when there was a sudden up-surge of violent crimes against the Chinese community in Tonga, many people blamed you for inciting racial hatred toward the Chinese?
Yes, they were blaming me. But looking at the Chinese issue, which is something that I have been thinking about for a number of years, and how it has affected my life, it is not new to me because I knew it was going to happen.
The bakers are up in arms because apparently government has given a licence to an Indian and a Chinese to set up a bakery. The bakers came to see me and I told them, “this is what I have been telling you for years and my solution to the problem may not be acceptable for all of you. So I suggest that you should go and get the business community together because you will be all wiped out by the Chinese and the Indians”. This issue has been very close to me and I know some people may say that I am racist, but racism is a different issue. It is obvious that they are dominant, and very powerful, we will not be able to stand up against them for too long. [As an example ‘Akilisi named five Indian “shoemakers” whose descendants had developed successful trading businesses over two or three generations.] With all these Chinese, what is going to happen?
This is the kind of issue on which I know I will not be able to work together with the other People’s Representatives.
I think all those racial issues are tied up with the issuing of business licences, the government’s privatisation program, Human Rights, Free Enterprise, and the global-isation of economy?
Yes for me those are minor issues, but government is not dealing with the main issue, which is to stop these people from taking away business opportunities and the taking away of Tongan land.
What is happening to the pro–democracy movement now? I know in the beginning it was a hot topic but in recent years it appears to be winding down?
Yes, it is declining in popularity, but only during election the theme is being upheld as a banner, but after election then it is all forgotten. But that kind of problem is very difficult to find a solution for. It is the process of democratisation; it is tied up to other issues such as a Free Market, and like transparency and accountability they are all going together. Because sometimes we do not want to talk about democracy and yet we need accountability, the rules of laws, equality. The principal of democracy is currently being practised here, companies and women groups are operating under democratic principles, and they elect their officers. That practice has already been here for over 100 years so in reality the democratisation process is already taking place, it will come naturally.
Looking at the movement, and the change of name to include “Human Rights”. What is the main reason for that change?
We just want to broaden the activity of the movement, because people tend to remain with the Pro-Demo thing, but they don’t know that there are other issues inside it, including Human Rights, Rule of Law, and others. We want Human Rights and Democracy to project the image of what we are trying to do.
When you are talking about rights, is there a specific right that you are very concerned that the people have been deprived of?
The fundamental right of the people to elect their leaders, that is the right that we do not have. The right for us to elect who should be our leader is the one that we do not have.
In the movement, are there any changes in your tactics and approaches?
All we do is to try and utilise whatever opportunities that are available to us to propagate our ideas. We are looking at television, and we are hoping to be able to have a radio station and continue to pressure government.
The proposed Constitution that you have been working on, where has it got to, is it moving forward, standing still or what is happening to it?
The idea is still there but what we are working on now is to try and promote the idea, we are then pursuing different approaches on how to promote the same idea. We proposed for government to carry out a Referendum, and government replied to that. So for me that was a major move to pressure government for a referendum, because the issue has been debated over a number of years, therefore what is needed is for government to be honest and come out and hold a referendum.
What was the government’s response?
They requested to give them time to think about it, but we will continue to push that, because the only reason why they don’t want to do it is because they are scared. They are scared that the referendum may show that the people want change. If the referendum will show otherwise then we know where we are, and it is better for such a referendum to be carried out by the government than by someone else.
Their reply to our submission was that they have received it, and they are working on it but it would not have been possible to hold a referendum at the same time as the last election, which we requested.
Government did not give you any timetable?
No, put we will keep up the pressure, and we have circulated all these information overseas. The issue has been debated for six years and we should have a referendum, and we have made contact overseas, and if government does not want to move on and carry out a referendum then bring in an organisation from overseas to carry it out.
So your main point to select all Members of Parliament remains, but the process and procedures are yet to be decided?
Yes the election of all Members of Parliament remains to be our main objective.
A new issue we have added on to that is the land issue. That is a move, which for me is one of the best moves that we have made so far. Something that has been so sacred, but what we did was to put our thoughts into writing and presented it to the public and to the nobles.
What was the proposal?
Our proposal is for everyone to have only eight acres each including the nobles. That is our proposal, which has been distributed. And any land left to be submitted to government.
There was a Royal Land Commission in 1975, I think we have achieved more because we are putting forward a proposal, to be debated, and I know that the nobles are shaken up.
What was the nobles’ reaction?
They know that we are right, it is in line with our conscious, and the world of today, but it clashes with their needs.
What surprised me was that there was no major reaction from the nobles, except for Lasike. The people reacted more to it than the nobles, so my interpretation is that the ministers and the nobles know that we are doing the right thing.
© Pesi Fonua 1999-2016