Interview Princess Nanasipau'u: "Time for women to claim a place as decision makers" [1]
Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:00. Updated on Tuesday, March 29, 2016 - 17:37.
From Matangi Tonga Magazine, Vol. 15, no. 4, January 2001.
Interview by Pesi Fonua
In the past they kept their anger and sadness to themselves, but today if Tongan women are not happy, and if they are hurt, they will speak out because they have the right to do so, says international women’s leader, Princess Nanasipau‘u Tuku‘aho of Tonga.
She envisages a new breed of Tongan women emerging–the women of the 21st Century–who are well-educated, professional, and smart.
With such confidence, she firmly believes that these women should claim a place in the decision making process at all levels of Tongan society from village committees through the government.
Princess Nanasipau‘u (46), who recently became the new President of the Pan Pacific South East Asia Women’s Association (PPSEAWA), and the Patron of the newly established Center for Women and Children in Nuku‘alofa, says that to have a woman representative in the Tongan parliament will be the first step toward creating clean and healthy villages, and to solving some pressing social problems. Women no longer want to talk about issues that are important to them, “they want to do something about it,” she says.
Wife of Tonga’s Prime Minister, Prince ‘Ulukalala Lavaka ‘Ata, and mother of three teenagers, Princess Nanasipau‘u shines a leading light on what it means to be a Tongan woman in the new century.
Pesi Fonua– Among the issues that have been publicly debated are the questions of whether women should have the right to own land, and how to deal with domestic violence. What do you think concerns women the most in Tonga today?
HRH Princess Nanasipau‘u Tuku‘aho– I have noticed that the society is more open now than ever before and issues are being debated more openly in public. Violence against women is openly discussed these days. In the 21st Century I think women feel that they have the right to speak out against what they do not like. Women no longer can put up with what they consider to be unfair treatment by their male counterparts.
There is a traditional respect and honour for women, which means that traditionally Tongan women are not expected to do hard labour such as cutting firewood, planting talo and ‘ufi. But women these days want to have the right to do things that only men were expected to do?
The situation now is that if women are not happy, and if they are hurt, they will speak out because they have the right to do so. In the past they have kept their anger and sadness to themselves. I think we are so fortunate that the respect and honour reserved for women are still there, but there are a few things that have changed our lives, such as job opportunities. Men and women are now competing for the same jobs. I think we should look at the whole issue carefully because there are old practices that we should retain and new ones that we should adopt. For instance, in our traditional way of life we were supposed to look after our elderly, but in most cases today it is questionable whether this is the case, because some old people are not well looked after in the villages. In the economic climate of today some families no longer can live in big extended families where the welfare of each member is cared for by the extended family.
The desire by women to have the same rights as men, is the Fahu concept in question, where the sister has a higher rank than the brother, and has an overwhelming authority over her brother’s children?
I agree that there are new and old issues that we should look at carefully, but I think we should not move too far away from the essence of the Tongan way of life, which is based in love. The Fahu should have love in her heart, instead of exercising her special privilege like a tyrant. If we look at our traditional life style things have changed since our adoption of a money economy, and this social change is taking place not only in Tonga, but in other parts of the world.
The concern about land rights and the rights to hereditary titles by women, how high are they on the list of priorities for Tongan women?
I am aware of the land issue because my husband is an estate owner, but realistically there will never be enough land for everyone. I think what is needed is for us to look at our Land Law, with regards to our people who are now residing overseas. I think there should be a limitation to their period of absence so that people who are here can use their land. At the moment there are lands that are left uncultivated because the owners have gone overseas, and the people who are here can’t use that land. I think we should really look at our Land Law and find ways so that the land can be used instead of being left idle.
With regards to the right for women to own land, I have noticed that usually the father or the land-owner wants his daughter or his sister to be able to have a piece of the family land. It is rare that the brother or the father wants the daughter and her husband to get out. But as I have said, the problem remains that there is just not enough land.
So if women were to have the right to own land, it would further pressurise the land shortage?
Yes. I know there was a meeting where most women were quite happy to leave things as they are because if it were to go through the female it could mean that they would lose their family land. I think what is most important is for the land to be cultivated, instead of being left idle. I believe that if a woman is desperately in need of land it can be discussed, and a solution can be found.
With regards to hereditary titles is it possible to go through the female line if there is no male heir?
Yes, and it has happened. Like the Vaea title, there was no male heir and therefore it had to go to the son of the daughter. The woman always gets her fair share, but if she feels that she has been deprived the issue can be raised and discussed.
You know with the issue of equal rights between men and women, do you think it is realistic and do you think it will happen?
Maybe, in certain areas. There should be equal opportunities in education, job opportunities and salaries, but with regards to land a solution can be found through friendly discussion and respect for each other.
I think they should not feel threatened at all. The change that is taking place in the 21st Century is that man is no longer the provider of food and money for the family, because in most homes now, both husband and wife are working. Therefore they have to share the responsibilities, in looking after the children, washing and cooking—that is the 21st century. If some men have not become accustomed to that, then most definitely they have not come to terms with the change that is taking place. A mother who works does not have the energy to come back home to cook and to wash, and to look after the children. The husband should accept those changes because it is all for the good of the family. I think one thing missing from most families in Tonga is the leadership role of the father, because in most homes the disciplining of the children is left for the mothers.
The family of the 21st century is a new reality, but some men and women still believe in and would like to maintain the old family structure where a women is respected and is not allowed to do any heavy work such as planting talo or cutting firewood. What is your view on that?
I think there is still a need to maintain the respect between brothers and sisters, and the relationship and responsibilities between them, but, realistically, things have changed. There is a closer and a freer contact between family members, despite the traditional restrictions. I think that came about because of a change in our lifestyle, some of our houses now are smaller, and with the introduction of telephone, fax, internet, and television into the homes it further complicated our lives if we wanted to continue to live in our traditional lifestyle. Apart from all that, I believe there is still a need for us to bring up our children to understand and give women, particularly young women, the respect they deserve, for instance, when she performs in public or on the day she is married.
But, of course, people choose to do things their way. Now they want to go out and do aerobics and there are other social activities that they want to be part of, and there will always be good and bad, and we should carefully make the choice, bearing in mind that there are certain things which will identify us as Tongans.
With regards to women’s rights, and women’s issues, when discussed in a regional gatherings it has been point-ed out by participants from metropolitan centres that people from small countries like Tonga should not feel that they are behind the times, because in places like New Zealand and Australia women are still battling with the same kind of problems.
I think we should look carefully at our own situation. There is no need for us to rush in to sign this convention and that convention because of pressure from outside. We should look carefully at it and it should be understood by the cross-section of the community from top to bottom. I think we should give it some time to permeate through, because generally we have been successful in adopting what we thought was best for us. I think we should not rush into it.
You seem very keen to see a woman representative in the Tonga Legislative Assembly?
Yes, I hope that we will be able to elect a woman into parliament in the next parliamentary election. In fact, at all levels of decision making in this country there should be a woman to voice the concerns of Tongan women. The views and the feelings of women are different.
I think People’s Representatives are spending too much time on trivial issues instead of looking at the laws. There are new laws to be drafted and old laws to be amended in order to be able to deal effectively with some of our social problems.
Some basic regulations are needed in order to have a clean and healthy village.
With Public Health, there is a need for the regular inspection of toilets and kitchens in the villages. We have heard of increasing number of people being bitten by dogs, but still nothing is done about the dogs. We have heard about the disease that is spread by the animals, but there is no law to deal with it. Old vehicles are everywhere, there should be a law forbidding people from dumping their old vehicles on the side of the roads or in the villages. I think what happens is that politicians do not want to say and do certain things because it is going to be bad to so and so, and they will not vote for them.
But these are issues which are very important to women, and they are no longer just want to talk about it they want to do something about it.
The allowing of a gay person to become an ordained minister in the Methodist church caused some Tongans to leave the church. For the sake of equal rights do you think it is acceptable for a man to marry another man?
My thinking on that issue is for a man and a woman to maintain their dignity by remaining who they are, I don’t believe that a man should marry another man, or a woman to marry another woman. When I go overseas I meet some of those people and I have nothing against them, but I sincerely believe that it is still more dignified for a man to marry a woman, and not a man.
Do you think that the Tongan society at the moment is too liberal in their attitude?
Yes, we are too faka-fiefiemalie ‘aupito, laid back and couldn’t-care-less. We, the adults, talk about what we consider to be the bad attitude of children begging, instead of working for pocket money. But children are children who can be taught, and they should be taught that if they do not finish their education and get a good job, there are other options besides going around begging. They should have the attitude that they should work for things.
The recent burning of schools is the manifestation of an anger in the hearts of children, very destructive. We have to look at ways of turning that anger to something constructive other than the burning of buildings.
If we try and identify the source of the problem, I think we will find that most young parents do not know how to raise a family, and are not aware of their responsibilities toward their children and so on.
I found out about these problems from teachers who commented on children who do not do their homework, and the reasons they gave were because there were no lights and no pens at home. In a situation like this the village should provide a place for children to do their homework.
I think we need a different kind of Town and District Officers, those with skills to identify some of these problems and to find solution for them. A lot more is required of Town and District Officers these days.
Village and town halls could be ideal places for students to do their homework?
There was such a program in Fua‘amotu before the examinations, and there were good results. It was noticeable the higher number of students from Fua‘amotu who passed [entrance exams] to Tonga High School. This is the kind of program that villages should have. I don’t know if we should leave it entirely to the Town Officer, may be each village should have an Education Officer who specialises in education.
Were you surprised to be elected as the new President of the Pan Pacific-South East Asia Women’s Association?
This is the advantage of working with an organisation such as PPSEAWA. I was notified and asked if I would like to be president, and given time to think about it. But prior to my becoming the president I was a member of the International Council. I was president of the Tongan PPSEAWA and chairperson of the organising committee when Tonga hosted the PPSEAWA conference here in 1994. Following the Tongan conference I was made a vice-president of PPSEAWA International, and so I was progressing up the hierarchy of the organisation. There was a general feeling within PPSEAWA that they should give members of small member organisations the opportunity to hold executive position in the PPSEAWA International. The president’s position has been held by women from Japan, Thailand and from the USA, and this time around they were looking for someone from the islands of the Pacific to take the leadership role.
Is this the first time for anyone from the Pacific to be the president of PPSEAWA?
A lady from Fiji became president during the 1960s.
It appears that PPSEAWA has a focus on development, but what about other issues such as women’s rights?
They cover all. PPSEAWA’s goal is peace, friendship and the advancement in the life of women and children. It also incorporates into its working agenda the working program of the United Nations on women, which could be either for handicapped children or for the elderly, and this year is the Culture of Peace for This Decade. The national organisation will also hold activities on Culture of Peace. Thirdly, are the national working programs, which vary from country to country. For example, in New Zealand and Australia, they are funding scholarships and awards for girls and women. New Zealand gives financial support to the wives of students who attend St John Bible College. They also finance the purchasing of equipment to be used in the Pacific islands, I think Dr Glenis Mafi was given some equipment for her Ha‘ateiho clinic under this assistant program. In Indonesia they finance programs for the eradication of poverty. So the agenda of activities for PPSEAWA come from three sources, PPSEAWA, the UN,and from our national organisations.
How does PPSEAWA handle the issue of women’s rights?
In our recent meeting those issues were raised. The political status of women, what can be done to open doors in order for women to become part of the government’s decision making process, and what are the job opportunities that should be made available for women. Meeting in the Cook Islands, we looked at the obstacles that stop women from getting involved in politics. One thing that I am particularly interested in is our coming parliamentary election. I think it is very important for Tongan women to work toward electing a woman member to Parliament, and we should start working on it now. We have to find the right candidate, and to formulate what we want her to take to parliament, because women need a voice in the House. There are issues that are very important to women but are not relevant to men, and therefore they are never raised in the House.
Now that you are the president, will the PPSEAWA headquarters be moved here?
The PPSEAWA has a mobile headquarters, because women have families and jobs, and it is very difficult for them to move from place to place. So for the next three years Tonga will be the headquarters for PPSEAWA, and all contacts with members will go out from here.
The first vice president is Valerie Hogan from New Zealand, the other vice presidents are Dr Viopapa Annandale Atherton, Samoa; Mary Cabrera, Australia; Fatireah Hareid-Don, Malaysia; and Sachiko Okumura, Japan.
How many members?
It varies from country to country. For example Tonga, prior to when the PPSEAWA conference was held here in 1994 our membership went up, but it has gone down since. The country with the highest membership is Thailand, with 1,000 members, but it varies from country to country. We are working toward attracting young women, because we need not only their membership but also their contribution.