Clashes in the House as PM answers queries over failed air policies [1]
Monday, July 25, 2005 - 15:45. Updated on Friday, May 9, 2014 - 20:29.
From the House, translation summary by Pesi Fonua
Tonga Legislative Assembly, Minute No. 16, Tuesday June 28, 2005.
-'Akilisi Pohiva wondered why the police arrested Piveni Piukala for a small crime and yet the Shoreline Chairman and Director who had committed bigger crimes were not arrested.
- Clive Edwards wanted to know what had the Minister of Labour, Dr Feleti Sevele, done about Shoreline, which had been alleged to have broken the laws a number of times.
- Samiu Vaipulu called for government to explore the opportunities for Tongans to go and work in New Zealand.
- There was a verbal clash between Clive Edwards and Dr Feleti Sevele.
- 'Uliti Uata proposed for a salary rise for public servants to be postponed from July 1.
- The Deputy Prime Minister, Hon. Cecil Cocker, blamed Prince Tu'ipelehake and 'Akilisi Pohiva for the death of Royal Tongan Airlines.
- 'Uliti Uata told Cabinet Ministers that being ruthless tax collectors was nothing to be proud of.
- Samiu Vaipulu reported of how the DC3 of Peau Vava'u was push started in Vava'u and the pilot infringed Civil Aviation regulations by fixing the broken-down aircraft in Ha'apai.
- 'Akilisi Pohiva said that a report of the Royal Commission on the Royal Tongan Airlines said that RTA died because it was mismanaged by the RTA board led by the Prime Minister.
- Hon. Cecil Cocker said that the Royal Commission did not do what they were supposing to be doing, finding money to re-capitalise RTA.
- Clive Edwards revealed a spineless Cabinet over the RTA issue.
- When Hon. Cecil Cocker, disagreed with the government privatisation program, it was a headache for the Minister of Finance.
- 'Akilisi Pohiva's motion for the House to debate on the scale of the public servants salary revision was rejected.
- The passing of the Appropriation Bill and the Estimated Budget for 2005-06.
Shoreline complaints
The Speaker thanked god that the king had returned safely home after undergoing some medical treatments in New Zealand.
He reminded members that the pension scheme for members of parliament would come into effect on July 1. He said that copies of the policy would be distributed for them to read and understand their entitlement.
The Tongatapu no. 1 People's Representative, 'Akilisi Pohiva, requested time to read the new salary revision that had just been tabled into the House. He said there would be a lot of dissatisfaction over the new salary revision for public servants.
On a different issue he commented on what he thought was an unfair administration of the law. He thought it was unfair that the police arrested and imprisoned Piveni Piukala for an alleged crime, which he thought was minor, and yet the two complainers the Crown Prince and Sosefo Ramanlal of Shoreline had never been arrested by the police. He said that they [he] had written letters of complaint to the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Police and the Crown Prince, and they had been expecting the police to arrest these two for questioning, but instead they arrested this other person. 'Akilisi did not think there was fairness in the administration of the law in the country.
The Minister of Police, Hon. Nuku, pointed out that the arrest of this person had nothing to do with Shoreline, it was because he committed a computer crime, and the complaint about him was not filed just recently but three months ago.
A Tongatapu People's Representative, Clive Edwards, the legal counsel for Piveni Piukala corrected the Minister of Police that according to the writ, which he had with him, the complaint was just this month and not three months ago.
The Minister of Police said that the date on the writ was only very recently, but the complaint was made earlier.
Clive asked the Minister of Labour, Hon. Dr Feleti Sevele, what had he done about Shoreline and the Ramanlal brothers who repeatedly had broken the laws, and yet nothing had been done to them, and yet whenever they made a complaint everyone rushed in to do something about it. He said that all the Minister of Labour had to do was to authorise and to pass on the file to the people who would take the legal action. He asked for the Minister to do something about it.
Secondly, he wanted to correct the Prime Minister on a comment he made the day before about him and the Minister of Lands travelling overseas to look at the formation of a committee to draft the working agenda of parliament. He said he did not go, it was the Minister of Lands, Minister of Justice, and the Minister of Finance who went.
The Minister of Labour, Hon. Dr Feleti Sevele, said that he had been on the job for three months and they were working on it. He reminded the House that when Clive Edwards was the Minister of Police, 'Akilisi Pohiva had been raising the issue, during the past five years but the police had never done anything about it.
Clive replied that whether or not it was three months, but he had got the file, and he should do something about it.
Dr Feleti Sevele said that he wanted the House and the country to know that they were working on the matter, and that they had achieved more in three months than what Clive, the former Minister of Police had done about it in nine years.
Clive said that Feleti kept saying that he was working on it but he was not the one to be doing the investigation, all he had to do was to authorise and give it to the people who would do the investigation and the prosecution.
New Zealand Immigration
A Vava'u People's Representative, Samiu Vaipulu, on a different issue thanked the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Hon. Tu'a Taumoepeau, for agreeing to a petition he and the Vava'u PR, Vili Helu, had presented, pleading for the construction of a road to the village of 'Utulei. But he said that the Chairman of the Vava'u Development Committee, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, agreed for work to be done on the 'Utulei road.
He also said that there were New Zealand immigration officials in Tonga and he wondered if the Minister of Labour and the Minister of Foreign Affairs could talk to them about the possibility of Tonga having a similar work scheme as the Vailima Pilot Project for the Samoans. Samiu stressed the importance for Tonga to establish a working scheme with New Zealand.
On a different matter he also expressed his concern with the children of Tongans who became stateless in Australia, they were not eligible for an Australian passport, and they did not have Tongan passports, and he suggested that it was an issue that the Tongan government should raise with Australia.
The Speaker said that there would be a meeting with Jan Jeffery from New Zealand Immigration and four other officials from New Zealand at the conference room at 12.30, and members who were interested may attend.
Dr Feleti Sevele that the problem with any dialogue with the New Zealanders was because when Clive Edwards was Acting Prime Minister he stopped the proposed visit to Tonga by New Zealand members of parliament and he went on TV and said that we did not need New Zealand aid.
Clive Edwards replied that Feleti was lying, and the reason why he stopped them was because their intention was political. He said that Feleti did not know the background to the case and he was telling a lie.
The two got into a bit of a verbal bash before the Speaker got them to sit down. He dissolved the Legislature. The Chairman of the Whole House Committee took his seat and proceedings continued with the Budget.
Budget debate continues
'Akilisi again expressed his concern with the fact that the Auditor General also ran a private practice. He also felt that he was not working independently from government influence.
A Tongatapu People's Representative, 'Isileli Pulu, also pointed out that he had never seen an annual report of the Auditor's Department presented to the House. He said that he went to the Prime Minister's office and it stayed there.
Vote No. 18 of the Department of the Auditor was passed 24-3. Against were 'Akilisi Pohiva, 'Isileli Pulu and Sunia Fili.
Education
Vote No. 19 of the Ministry of Education.
Vili Helu expressed his concern with the drop in the allocation for the maintenance of school buildings by about $50,000. He said that because of lack of maintenance, in some cases it was cheaper to build new buildings than to repair run-down buildings.
With regards to sports, he said that the people of Vava'u were jealous with all the assistance and sporting facilities that Tongatapu had. He said that the main rugby field in Vava'u, Fangatongo was a crying shame if it were put beside Teufaiva.
The Acting Minister of Education, Viliami Takau, said that a lot of work would be carried out in Vava'u, and the European Union had contributed $3 million for the repairing of school buildings. With regards to sports he said that the allocation for sport had been increased from $50,000 to $100,000.
Vote No. 19 was passed 25-0.
Cabinet salary rise
After the lunch break 'Akilisi Pohiva expressed his disagreement with the figures of salary rise that had been tabled into the House, particularly with the salary rise of the Cabinet Ministers, which he said would go up to $40,000 plus $20,000 (their Parliamentarian salaries). He disagreed with the rise because it would come into force the following week, but the House did not have the time to debate on it. He was convinced that the House had been tricked.
'Uliti Uata proposed for the salary rise to be postponed from July 1, giving members time express their views on the proposed rise, which was only tabled the day before. He said that the complication was because they had already passed the allocation of $7.1 million for the salary revision (rise), but it was only yesterday they were given the details of the rise.
'Akilisi pointed out that the new salary rise would come into force the following Monday.
The Speaker dissolved legislature and the proceedings continued in committee.
Vote No. 20 of the Ministry of Health. It was passed 26-0.
Vote No. 22, Prison Department. Passed 24-0.
Vote No. 23, Ministry of Agriculture. Passed 23-0.
Vote No. 24, Fisheries. Passed 21-0.
Vote No. 25, Central Planning. Passed 23-0.
No money
Vote No. 26, Ministry of Labour and Commerce.
Clive Edwards reminded the House of a motion he made for the sum of $6 million to be made available by government to encourage business activities in the private sector. He said that the idea was well supported by the Minister of Finance, and he thought it would appropriate for the amount to be included in the vote of the Ministry of Labour, Commerce and Industries.
The Minister of Finance said that the request by Clive for $6 million to subsidise private sector enterprises was a very difficult proposition for him because it meant he has to cut the vote of ministries, but those Ministries had already got a working program in place.
Clive expressed his disappointment that the Minister had changed his view on his motion. He said that when he first introduced the idea it was well supported by the Minister of Finance. He said that it was unfortunate with the state of the economy at the moment that all government was doing was taxing the people, without giving them something to make a living with.
Vote 26 passed 21-0.
Domestic air service
Vote 27 Tourism.
'Isileli Pulu said that the tourism industry had been badly affected by the poor state of the domestic air service.
'Akilisi Pohiva wondered what government was going to do about the poor domestic air service which was fine when two airlines were serving the domestic service but when they stopped FlyNiu, giving Peau Vava'u the monopoly, that was when the service declined.
The Prime Minister, HRH Prince 'Ulukalala Lavaka Ata asked the member to ask the question when they debated Vote No. 30 of the Civil Aviation.
He also said that the overseas Tongans who came for the Free Wesleyan Church conference were looking for 'Akilisi, they were angry with him for telling them lies and convincing them not to use the former Royal Tongan Airlines, which at the end died, but now they had to pay expensive airfares. He said that if 'Akilisi stayed in Ha'apai and all these people who were disguising to be Tongatapu people there would not have been any problem. He suggested that they should all go back to Ha'apai.
'Akilisi said he would not comment on what the PM had just said, but he suggested that a second airline should be allowed in to operate the domestic air service.
The Prime Minister said that the air service to Vava'u was affected by Ha'apai because the Ha'apai PRs did not support the plan to extend and to put lights on the runway at Pangai. He said that the death of the RTA meant that government had little say on the air service because it was under the control of a private company, the same as power generation.
'Akilisi said that the difference was because government always wins, because they hold the majority in the House.
Death of RTA
The Deputy Prime Minister, Hon. Cecil Cocker, corrected the member that government did not always win the voting of the House. He said that when the Tu'ipelehake moved and was supported by 'Akilisi not to give any more government money to RTA because of the high salary of the RTA CEO, it spelt death for Ha'apai, Vava'u and the Niuas.
The Prime Minister in support of the point that government did not always win the voting of the House, he said that government did not agree with the salary rise that had been tabled into the House, but when the House decided to rise its salary, he queried if government won the vote?
'Akilisi said that the PM was trying to mislead the House. Their intention was to revive the domestic air service.
Samiu Vaipulu expressed his disappointment with the suspension of the issuing of Development Licence because it had a negative impact on some of the tourism construction projects that were going on in Vava'u. He suggested for Tonga to adopt the Fijian approach and enforce only a 3% duty on imported goods for tourism development projects. He said that it was very urgent in order for development in this area to keep moving forward.
'Uliti Uata said that the biggest discouragement to the development of tourism was the 15% Consumption Tax. He told the Ministers that they should not feel proud of themselves for being good tax collectors, but be proud of being the initiator of construction projects, something to build up the country.
Samiu said that four groups from Germany that were booked to stay at the Paradise International Hotel had cancelled their booking because of the 15% tax.
'Ulliti also reported how the people who owned the Sandy Beach Motel in Ha'apai were so disgusted with the domestic air service. He said that the suffering encountered by tourist enterprises operators in Vava'u and Ha'apai was the fault of the Minister of Civil Aviation.
The Minister of Health, Hon. Dr Viliami Tangi, said that at his home island of Hunga in Vava'u, there were two motels, but because the annual earning of each was less than $100,000 they were exempted from the Consumption Tax, and the Room Tax had also been removed, so he said that according to the owners of these establishments they were quite happy with the new taxation system.
'Uliti wanted the Minister for Civil Aviation, the Prime Minister to say when was he going to introduce a better domestic air service.
The Deputy Prime Minister, Hon. Cecil Cocker wanted to know if the member was one of those who supported the motion to eliminate RTA. He said that in our prayers we put our faith on god, but in economics we should not put our faith on god, we should have put our faith in government to look after the Domestic air service, but instead we gave it to the Private Sector, and they are operating only if it makes profits.
The Prime Minister said that if 'Uliti Uata, who used to operate a domestic air service, would like to restart his airline, he would give him a licence.
'Uliti responded that he would not invest on a domestic air service because of the unpredictable behaviour of government, who would close an air operator down, like what they did with FlyNiu.
Vote No. 27 of Tourism was passed 21-0.
Vote No. 28, Ministry of Work. It was passed 26-0.
Vote No. 29, Environment. It was passed 24-0.
Overseas travel
Vote No. 30, Civil Aviation.
'Isileli Pulu expressed his concerned over the enormous amount of money, $165,000 that the ministry spent on overseas travelling. He said that most of these travelling related to safety and security but he wondered about the value of those meetings if we end up using an aircraft for our domestic air service that was obviously not safe. He said that a number of times passengers had to disembark because they could not start up the aircraft. He wondered why they issued a licence to the airline to operate.
He also queried the expense that was made by government to extend the runways in the outer islands in order for the Peau Vava'u to land there, but since then the aircraft was still unable to land in the Niuas.
Aircraft safety problems
His other concern was over the several thousand worth of RTA tickets that were sold before the airline collapsed and to these days ticket holders have not been refunded.
Samiu Vaipulu wanted to know if it was ever reported to the Minister of Civil Aviation what happened at Vava'u to the DC3 of Peau Vava'u. He said that he was told that at one time when they could start up the DC3, the passengers disembarked and a plastic rope was brought in and tied to the propeller and was tied to another vehicle to start up the plane. He said that such practice was illegal and taboo in civil aviation. He said that on another occasion he was told by the Chief Justice that the 'thing' died at Ha'apai, the pilot telephoned Tongatapu and then proceed to open up the engine and tighten a loose wire, something that was not allowed by Civil Aviation. What has the Civil aviation done about all these illegal activities. He said that the aircraft was not safe and he wanted an answer from the Minister.
The Minister said that he had spoken in the House numerous times about airline safety. He said he knew that the aircraft had some problems in Ha'apai. The aircraft was heading to Vava'u but it had to stop in Vava'u. He said that there was a need to install lights at the Ha'apai runway but it was objected to by the two Ha'apai PRs.
Samiu said that the runway has nothing to do with the illegal activity of the pilot by opening up the engine of the aircraft.
Invite new airline bidders
The Prime Minister (also the Minister for Civil Aviation) said that there was a safety breach before and that was one of the reasons why he wanted to put lights on the Ha'apai runway. He said that the current domestic service has been operating for about a year, and they were not following what they said they would, so the committee was looking at it because the service was not running properly and it was probably right to invite new bidders to run the service.
'Akilisi Pohiva, on a different issue reminded the House the report of the Royal Commission about RTA. He said that he had the report from start to end and there was not one mention there that the RTA collapsed caused by a member of parliament. Instead the report said that the airline collapsed because of its mismanaged by the Board which was lead by the Prime Minister. He said that the PM had told the House about 100 times that the collapse of RTA was caused by the PRs but he wanted to put the record right that it was caused by the board, which was led by the PM.
The Deputy Prime Minister, said that the acting Prime Minister at the time and there was a motion in the House (by Prince Tu'ipelehake) and was seconded by 'Akilisi for government not to give any more money to the RTA, a move he said destroyed tourism in Ha'apai and Vava'u and the air service to the Niuas and 'Eua.
He said that the Royal Commission did not do what they were mandated to do, to find money to revive RTA, but instead we witnessed what they did was to put an end to RTA.
'Akilisi thought it was amazing that after government established a Royal Commission and brought in a Palangi (and a Chinese) from overseas to prepare the report and now they were saying that it was a lie.
The Prime Minister said that not one member of the Royal Commission had ever worked on an aircraft, nor had ever read a book about aircrafts, and had no knowledge whatsoever about an aircraft - all they were thinking of was to kill the aircraft and also Ha'apai, Vava'u, the Niuas and 'Eua.
'Akilisi said that the Prince (the Crown Prince) was interviewed on television. He was asked why RTA collapsed. He reply was, first poor management, and second, wrong aircraft that they brought from Brunei. 'Akilisi wondered why did the Prime Minister and the deputy PM not correct what was said and tell the people that it was not true, instead the Deputy PM was trying to protect the PM.
He also asked the Prime Minister and the government to pay what RTA owed people on unhonoured airline tickets. He said that the matter was raised during the recent annual conference of the Free Wesleyan Church, and a group from the USA had not been repaid for tickets that they bought fromRTA.
The PM replied that the Minister of Finance was working to terminate something, but if some people think that they were owed something then they should take action.
He said he attended the same church conference that the 'Akilisi was referring to and he said what he heard from overseas Tongans that 'Akilisi had lied to them, when he told them not to send money to Tonga and not to fly on RTA, because what they discovered was that now the airfares has gone up
'Akilisi said he was overseas when he was informed with an e-mail that RTA was to collapse within two weeks, and that New Zealand would confiscate the aircraft. He said he was then interviewed on the radio in New Zealand. He was asked for his advice to the people who were preparing to leave for the conference. He said his reply was that he has received an e-mail from Tonga that the aircraft was to be confiscated by New Zealand and they should not travel on RTA.
No flights for Niuas
The Niuas People's Representative, Lepolo Taunisila, asked the Prime Minister if it was possible to use the small aircraft of the Tonga Defence Service to get members of parliament up to the Niuas for their annual national tour.
The PM said that neither the DC3 nor the aircraft of the TDS was in good shape to go to the Niuas. He said that the TDS aircraft was for surveillance and rescue purpose only.
Clive Edwards wanted to correct the Deputy Prime Minister for his wrong point of view on the responsibility of the Royal Commission on RTA (Clive was the Chairman of the Royal Commission). He said that the Royal Commission worked within the terms of reference that was designated by the Privy Council. With regards to the point raised that the Commission was supposed to go out and find money to revive RTA, Clive said there was a section of the report about it and anyone may read about it on the report. He stressed that they did not work outside the Terms of Reference given by the Privy Council.
Financial assistance from China
The Deputy Prime Minister agreed with Clive, but he said that the reason why they had to seek some financial assistance from China was because the House had closed the door on RTA.
Clive, on a different issue pointed out that there was nothing in the vote of the Civil Aviation about the plan to corporatise civil aviation in the near future. He said there was nothing there about a pension scheme or an allocation for redundancy payment.
The PM agreed with Clive and said negotiation was going on because of the different nature of the responsibilities of people who were working at the airport, such as Air Traffic Controller who became the employees of airlines, whereas security guards were still being employed by the ministries.
'Uliti Uata wanted to know why there was no air service to the Niuas and to 'Eua, was it because of aircraft or the runways?
The PM said that when RTA was still flying there was a service to the Niuas and to 'Eua, but the PRs supported the move to privatise the air service and to terminate RTA, and that was what was happening.
'Uliti wondered if the PM could answer his question instead of dodging it, but the PM replied that he was no longer working for an airline but only for the Ministry of Civil Aviation.
'Uliti said that they had just wasted government money by extending the airport in the Niuas and 'Eua with the hope that the Peau Vava'u would be able to land there, but following the inspection by an expert from the New Zealand Civil Aviation, the runways in these islands failed to meet the safety requirements.
The Deputy Prime Minister expressed his regret that RTA died, he believed that government should have continued to subsidise RTA, but unfortunately the House decided to end government financing for RTA.
Cabinet wanted to end RTA
'Uliti reminded the House that government had the majority and held the power in the House and the reason why the House decided to end government financing RTA was because they wanted it to stop.
'Uliti said that the Cabinet and the Privy Council split over the financing of RTA, and that the Privy Council decided for government to stop financing RTA.
Clive said that during the debate on whether government should continue to finance RTA, the PM was away overseas, and Cecil was the Acting PM, and he advised ministers to reject the proposal for government to continue financing RTA. After that the PM contacted from overseas that the plane was ready to leave.
(The Chairman intercepted and Clive did not finish what he was saying).
'Uliti said that the Privy Council decided not to give any more government money to RTA, but when the PM returned ministers reversed their decision and gave him money.
Finance Minister rubs his head
On a different issue the Deputy PM said that he indulged in the study of the concept of Private Sector, when he studied economics in university and it was clear that it was not viable for small economies, but most suitable for big economies such as the USA and Australia.
Samiu Vaipulu, told the Deputy PM that while he was talking the Minister of Finance was massaging his head.
The Deputy PM said because he, (the Minister of Finance) was trying to walk the pathway of Private Sector, but it would be difficult because a good part of our economy is subsistence and it has no economic power.
Sunia Fili said that the Deputy PM was a man without any moral conviction because if he disagreed with privatisation why then he kept raising his hand and agreeing to corporatise government enterprises.
Hon. Cecil Cocker said that corporatisation was the proper way to go but government was just not doing it according to the proper way of corporatising enterprises.
The chairman finally called for votes, and Votes No. 30 of the Civil Aviation was passed 24-1. Against was 'Uliti Uata.
Vote No. 31 of the Ministry of Marine was passed, 24-0.
Appropriation Bill passed
The chairman said for the committee to vote on the Appropriation Bill to appropriate the 2005-06 budget.
Clive reminded the committee that once the bill was passed they no longer could go back to debate on the detail of the salary revision that was presented to the House the day before.
'Akilisi pleaded for the postponed the vote of the Appropriation Bill until the following day, giving PRs a chance to debate on the salary revision on the following day before they vote on the bill.
The Chairman told the member to raise his point with the Speaker, he then called for votes on the Appropriation Bill to appropriate the government budget for 2005/06. It was carried 23-2. Against were 'Akilisi Pohiva and 'Uliti Uata.
The Committee was dissolved and the Speaker took his Chair in the Legislature.
Salary revision debate rejected
'Akilisi wanted to comment on the detail of the Salary Revision which was presented to the House the day before, which he said was unacceptable.
(The contradiction with regards to the salary revision was because the allocation for the salary rise of $7.1 million was already passed by the House in Vote No. 14. Some members agreed in principal with the salary rise, but not with how it was administered).
Clive said that if members wanted to debate on the matter they should be allowed, because that was why they were in the House to debate on the affairs of the country.
The speaker called for votes on a motion by 'Akilisi for an opportunity to debate on the salary revision the following day. It was rejected 9-16. For it were 'Akilisi Pohiva, 'Isileli Pulu, Clive Edwards, Samu Vaipulu, Vili Helu, 'Uliti Uata, Fineasi Funaki, Sunia Fili and Lepolo Taunisila.
The Speaker called for votes on the second reading of the Budget Estimate for 2005/06. It was carried 23-3. Against were 'Akilisi Pohiva, 'Isileli Pulu and 'Uliti Uata.
Votes were called after the third reading of the Appropriation Bill. It was carried 24-3. Against were 'Akilisi Pohiva, 'Isileli Pulu and 'Uliti Uata.